This video is in response to this video post.
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on Thursday, May 11th, 2006 at 3:35 pm and is filed under Kitka, Videoblogging.
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May 11th, 2006 at 4:01 pm
Ms Kitka, thanks for making a video when you’re so sick!
NO ONE HATES AN OPINION. Or at least no one should. What bothers me is that we’re supposed to just accept that sex sells and people just want to make money. What if someone you knew wanted the job and didn’t get it because she wasn’t “hot” enough? That would, in fact, be a form of discrimination. I also love men and women equally - the idea that feminists hate men is a long-standing myth in the community. But I love men more who value women for the whole package and don’t need their bodies or images to make money. People ought to be more clever than that by now.
Your opinion is totally valid, and I applaud you for sharing it. My concern was more with the comments that followed in the golf hostess thread. Some people were blatantly cruel and usually dismissive of women, and I worry they’d treat you the same way too. You’re right - they’re mad because they don’t agree with me - but there lies a deeper problem that I can be dismissed so easily for speaking out. I would never do the same to you.
Thank you for making a video and moving the conversation along through this medium. Hope you feel better soon!
May 11th, 2006 at 4:04 pm
I haven’t been following these posts on the hostess request for the golf video. Your response is interesting and mostly I see it similarly. There’s as large a diversity of things people want to do with networked video as people doing them. I see there’s room for all of it based on what people want to do and see. Whether it’s my 40-54 viewers on my infrequent Film in Online Media vlog or your 4,000+ viewership.
May 11th, 2006 at 5:58 pm
Hope you get better soon, you know what is really funny about this whole insane thread……..that if the guy had just been
May 11th, 2006 at 6:04 pm
Accidently hit the submit button…..
Hope you get better soon, you know what is really funny about this whole insane thread……that if the guy had just been SMART and just said “hey we are looking at casting a female for a golf show to get a different perspective” no one probably would have said a whole lot, oh I am sure some would have said why a woman, but if you notice I added “to get a different perspective” then he could have just looked for the “hot” girls out of the submissions and who would have known…….but that is just me thinkging out loud……….and I agree with you I use my vlog for my ceative outlet, most of it’s fluff, but I don’t always want it to be that way……I have dreams you know………
May 11th, 2006 at 7:08 pm
[…] Although I started working on this a week ago, it’s also a response (though more general) to this email. […]
May 11th, 2006 at 8:08 pm
You’re very cool.
All the girls in this video medium should support one another and the projects we do. Each one is an important step for us all as a whole. I just like that girls are producing stuff!
May 11th, 2006 at 9:54 pm
[…] There has been a spate of spirited sparring on the Yahoo Videoblogging Group and in video form about sexism, big media vs. grassroots media, agism, community, and all kinds of other hot-button issues. It started with a company looking for help finding a female host for a golf themed videoblog by posting on the Yahoo group. From that humble beginning a colossal exchange of posts both video and text ensued. Killerb got the video conversation going with this post, which inspired Ryan Hodson and Jay Dedman to respond with this video. Then things started getting reeeeeally weeeeeird with this post by Richard BF, which incorporated Brittany’s video into a video of himself with his mouth closed with black tape, silently (but very expressively) responding to her video. Things got a little tamer when Casey McKinnon posted her bronchitis tinged reflections on things. Then Bev Sykes chimed in with her very useful chronology of events along with her own take on things. Then things got strange again with this visually and sonically distorted remix of Ryan and Jay’s video by Shannon Noble. Dig in. It’s a feast of isms! […]
May 11th, 2006 at 10:19 pm
[…] There has been a spate of spirited sparring on the Yahoo Videoblogging Group and in video form about sexism, big media vs. grassroots media, agism, community, and all kinds of other hot-button issues. It started with a company looking for help finding a female host for a golf themed videoblog by posting on the Yahoo group. From that humble beginning a colossal exchange of posts both video and text ensued. Killerb got the video conversation going with this post, which inspired Ryan Hodson and Jay Dedman to respond with this video. Then things started getting reeeeeally weeeeeird with this post by Richard BF, which incorporated Brittany’s video into a video of himself with his mouth closed with black tape, silently (but very expressively) responding to her video. Things got a little tamer when Casey McKinnon posted her bronchitis tinged reflections on things. Then Bev Sykes chimed in with her very useful chronology of events along with her own take on things. Then things got strange again with this visually and sonically distorted remix of Ryan and Jay’s video by Shannon Noble. Then Killerb came back with a follow up video. Dig in. It’s a feast of isms! […]
May 12th, 2006 at 6:21 am
Good points, Casey. Thanks! I hope you get better soon. I remember the old camera gave you a lisp. Is it possible that this new one gives you bronchitis? Haha.
Good point about casting calls. That’s one of the few places you can still discriminate against folks based on things that are illeal to use against them in most places. And I don’t think it’s a completely bad thing. If you want a hot chick for a role in a play or TV show or something, that’s your choice. But I think the problem starts much earlier than the casting call. The problem really starts with the writer and producers deciding that they need a hot chick to get viewers and sponsors. And before that even, we have years and years of media made simply to show off women’s bodies and treat them as sex objects. It is almost as if there is no place to simply have a good TV show or movie that is carried along by dialogue or, god forbid, an interesting story.
Don’t get me wrong - I like looking at hot chicks too, but it’s really not at all stimulating intellectually. It turns all of us into purely sexual creatures.
Thanks,
Carl
May 12th, 2006 at 8:47 am
i’m glad you made this video.
whether you intended to or not, it shows that you are a person who can and will vlog your view and vlog your show(s). and I for one love that people like you are putting the effort into using this medium for whatever you want to use it for, opposed to the idealogies of some purists who want to keep a medium filtered based on what they feel is appropriate and non-contaminating…. which of course is 1) unachievable 2) discriminative 3) egocentric 4) illogical
i may prefer to (mostly) see a certain type of video content saturate the vlogosphere, but i dont dare discount anybody who is using this medium. i dont sare tell them to stop using this medium unless you meet the standards of certain other peoples idealogies. if i did, i’d be an artist/technologist/evangelist gone awry. i believe in balance whenever possible and some of the people/ideas i hear are simply not balanced at all.
sull
May 12th, 2006 at 11:52 am
Hey Casey. Hope that bronchitis goes away soon.
I take a similar point of view as Carl. My issue is with those who take the low road and cheap out with throwing some nice looking flesh on the screen instead of quality content. It’s a cop out and it adds nothing but noise. This works on tv, movies, etc, but why continue it in something new that could be a fresh start?
Cheers.
May 12th, 2006 at 1:57 pm
hey dev.
basically, i agree with you and if i were in a position to guide and teach people who are interested in vlogging, i would encourage creative content that is not a template of most of tv content.
this is fine, this is dandy, this is all good.
but what i get disturbed with is when people, like you and me who desperately want new, fresh and deep video content, start to take that desire as a base to discourage people with ideas and an absolute right to use this technological medium any way that they want.
Encourage better content… always!
Don’t discourage people with different ideas than yours.
Don’t try to reserve a medium for any specific types of content, ever.
Face the realities of a content publishing world…. good and bad.
Embrace the good, ignore the rest.
sull
May 12th, 2006 at 2:24 pm
Sull
Thanks for the balanced reminder. You make very good points….democracy right? I agree.
I certainly don’t mean to try to force people to do what I think is right with this media, but I can’t help but say something when I see it turning into the same thing as television. I need to temper my message I guess.
Will we even have a chance to ignore the bad/rest once it’s totally taken hold? Will our individual voices get drowned out once big media sees that the television model will in fact work online (since the content creators let it)? Time will tell I guess.
May 12th, 2006 at 3:02 pm
casey
what i dont understand about this video is how you say “this isnt for me to get my voice out there” but that’s a contradiction. isn’t that why you made this video? to say what was on your mind? and as for this being television on the web, if this were truly just television on the web, you and i and a ton of other people would not be as free to put whatever we want up there whether it be in the format of a show or just a personal video. television is a mediated media that has high barriers to entry. is that what videoblogging is and/or will become? is that what you want? that’s not what i want. to say that this is not to get your voice out there is to say that all the videos you have put up were not your self expression and not meant to convey a message from you to me, which is not true. all these things you and your BF create (kitcast, galacticast) are an extension of you and what you wish to express and in that sense this is allowing you to get your voice out there, no matter how it might be formated.
May 12th, 2006 at 3:13 pm
oh I know, brother!
i wasnt really talking back to you so much as the argument…. or something
i know it is frustrating to think of the day when the vast magority becomes the same od same old. but you know…. gotta pick your battles i guess.
because if a medium works, and the internet is proving to work quite well for content creators, then its just inevitable that crap content will pour in.
we can talk about how this sucks, i’m game. but to me, we should put our energies towards how to make sure that OUR ATTENTION stays on what WE WANT TO EXPERIENCE on the net. If we can filter people in our physical worlds, we should be able to filter people online. A mix of technology and good will should eventually do the trick. And by good will I mean…. every new project that tries to help become a filtered network of content that intentionally tries to avoid “Bad TV”. We will rely on such projects… we will trust such projects. We will create such projects. We will leverage the signal to noise ratio as much as we can. And we will do it using the same technologies and we’ll call it the same buzzy words and we’ll play in the same space. WE ARE NOT GOING ANYWHERE!
Let them come. Let them use this space. Hell, Maybe it will help avoid the fucked up laws being proposed. maybe not. We just gotta keep fighting our fight.
And…. I like plenty of “shows” that people are making. Shows that could be seen as a TVesque style. If I complain about tv shows online, then how do i defend the ones i enjoy? Like Casey’s
sull
May 12th, 2006 at 3:21 pm
ryanne.
i think casey means that thus far, she has not used this medium explicetely to express herself and have her voice be heard. obviously she knows that she can. she just did. but that has not been her primary interest. and she is saying that she has a right to want to make entertainment as she has…. and not nec make content that you make. its a perogative that we all have and thats what i got out of her point.
you also talk about how her shows are a form of her self expression. true and…. exxxxaaaactlyyy. maybe you like her shows? maybe you dont. but they are shows and they could be on TV (albeit late late night on sci-fi channel or something
.
So, i get the feeling that you are in the middle on this issue, maybe?
maybe we need to dish out what everyone means when they say “TV”.
sull
May 12th, 2006 at 3:34 pm
Ryanne-
I can see how you might think I’m contadicting myself by saying that videoblogging is not my chosen method for getting my voice out and then making this video, but the only reason I made this video was due to pressure from videobloggers saying people should “reply by video”. I was afraid that if I commented on other people’s vlogs in writing, they wouldn’t bother listening.
In real life, however, I don’t feel a need to sit in front of a camera and spill my thoughts. Instead I create a TV-like show where I can express my personality (not necessarily my political beliefs or my life experiences). If the Internet TV shows that I’m creating are considered my “voice” then why is stuff like this (format/topic shows) being attacked as being mainstream media influenced. I’m doing everything I ever dreamed of and wouldn’t trade what I’ve done for the world.
As I commented on Verdi’s site… I made mock radio shows as a child and later became a radio DJ. I truly hope that someday, our RSS feeds will all be transmitted directly to our wallscreens in the living room so we can watch our Internet TV sitting on a nice comfy couch. I believe this to be a very realistic future… which I would be more than happy to partake in.
The only thing I care about is having a borderless playing field where anyone can be a star… this is what I care about. If that means people start to get paid for it, that’s fine with me.
May 12th, 2006 at 3:40 pm
Sull, you speak a lot of truth. Thanks.
I’ll try to remember that next time (shouldn’t be too long, lol)
May 12th, 2006 at 3:43 pm
The two points of problems are
Dictating taste
Censorship
Dictating taste has failed most dramaticaly in totalitarian regimes. From Nazi Germany burning books and art designated as degenerate to Communist Russia restricting art to only Realist forms. Stating what art, entertainment, etc. that someone should create for the good of mankind has created the opposite result. If someone enjoys trashy Romance novels, it may not be my cup of tea. But, it’s not for me to decide what they enjoy.
Censorship has gone hand in hand with dictating taste as exampled above. Stating that certain programs are “bad” and “degenerate” for people is often the first step to censorship. That is why I find the Media Nipple site problematic. It’s making essentially the same argument as the Right on censoring media.
May 12th, 2006 at 5:03 pm
Enric,
I don’t know how to respond to that. There is a lot of truth in what you say….
but like I mentioned earlier, I don’t aim to decide for anyone what they do, I just don’t want the issue to slide by the sidelines until it’s too late and we are all standing around wonder wtf just happened….when big media has taken over the online video world as well as radio and television….and we’ve lost our voice.
…and I apologize to Casey for taking over the thread of this post
I’m done.
December 19th, 2006 at 1:32 pm
Interesting yet again, I read ths post every so often due to the heated conversations you always have here. There great.
Bob
Don Lapre Is Cool
bob@brooklynresponds.com
July 8th, 2007 at 6:41 pm
[…] Features the following material: Photo via Untitled by Daniel Liss Sexism in the Vlogosphere by Brittany Shoot My Response by Paul Knight Hostess Hotties by Anne Walk Follow up thoughts on the vlogosphere by Brittany Shoot A Bronchial Reply… by Casey McKinnon A Dinner Conversation by Ryanne Hodson & Jay Dedman The Appearance Game by Roxanne Darling To Prove A Point by Ryanne Hodson & Jay Dedman […]